Are you aware how dangerous a 'colon cleanse' could be ?
In the continuing coroner’s inquiry into the death of Penelope Dingle (who was encouraged by her husband and her homeopath not to use conventional medicine after she was diagnosed with bowel cancer, resulting in a tortuous death without painkillers), it is revealed that her homeopath recommended a ‘cruel’ enema (aka ‘colon cleanse’) that if taken would likely have split her bowl and resulted in death by massive infection, despite the enema containing relatively innocuous substances such as olive oil and soap:
"……a letter written by Mrs Dingle to Ms Scrayen (her homeopath) after her emergency surgery read: "Had I performed the enema you suggested the surgeon said it would have split my bowel and it was unlikely that I would have survived the massive infection that would have ensued."
Mrs Dingle also wrote a diary entry saying the surgeon had told her the use of those so-called lubricants "was just plain cruel"."
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/dingles-cruel-cancer-remedies-20100622-yv12.html
I’m not a colorectal surgeon so I don’t know how this would occur, but this seems like a very dangerous procedure that people shouldn’t be performing on themselves. If you use this sort of thing, or recommend it, are you aware of the risks involved? How can someone reduce the risk of such a severe injury?
Lightning: Interesting point at first but then it degenerated into a Red Herring Fallacy topped off with an Ad Hominem, quite poor.
(I’m perfectly happy with my janitorial duties, thanks for your concern).
Pog: It’s not my opinion, it’s that of the colorectal surgeon’s. That’s why I used the word ‘could’ in my question. If there are any other basic bits of English grammar you are struggling with, just let me know.
Lightning: I’m going to have to agree with Rhianna and Skep, it doesn’t matter how long the conversation goes on for, you just get stuck on a point (normally a fallacy) and can’t get over it. Personally I think it’s because you reach the end of your knowledge base. If ‘inability to continue a debate = spanner in the works’ then yes, that’s what you are.
Tagged with: bowel cancer • cancer remedies • colorectal • colorectal surgeon • conventional medicine • dangerous procedure • diary entry • dingle • emergency surgery • enema • english grammar • janitorial duties • lubricants • massive infection • painkillers • quot quot • red herring fallacy • rhianna • thanks for your concern • wa news
Filed under: Colon Cleansing
Denisedds (88)
Thankyou for posting, Dave.
Yes, I am aware of the potential dangers. Also as you know it’s fallacious of us to list the negatives without listing the benefits, but it must be remembered that there is NO evidence that these colon cleanses are of any therapeutic value, there is no plausible reason why it should be either. Therefore we are just left with the negatives. The only time one is required to clear their colon is before a colonoscopy to prevent a s hit storm or perhaps before surgery on the stomach.
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EDIT:
Thats right, one case history does not make EVERY practice wrong. After all, people have died having barium enemas in hospital (there was a recent case in the paper) The point that we are highlighting here is that there are NO PROVEN BENEFITS with colon cleases so why take even the smallest risk ?? Also, many alties don’t consider the risks.
Dave isn’t using this one case story to disprove Altmed.
@ Lighty: You started off well then descended into a line of logical fallacies….sigh.
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@ Lighty: This is why SkepDoc does not reply to your emails, because after an hour long debate you STILL come out with the same crap and just don’t get it.
"Not once has a doctor, nurse or pharmacist ever advised me of what risks are involved in taking any of the drugs no matter how minute or major that risk was. NOT ONCE."
Hmmmmm….find that little hard to believe and if that is the case, well thats wrong. However, in their defence, when prescribing medication there is no way a patient can retain all the information at once, which is why patient information leaflets are included along with your medication so you can read it when you get home and absorb it. In that leaflet, you will find all possible side effects listed. Another reason why some Doctors don’t always sit there and go through the list of possible side effects is simply because some patients have a hypochondriacal habit of convincing themselves that they have every single one of those listed symptoms…..usually before they’ve even taken the medication! I’m not saying side effects should not be disclosed, but everything is clearly stated in the leaflet that comes with the drug so I don’t understand your comparison? Does AltMed come with advice leaflets detailing all possible side effects? No? And why is that, Lighty? Could it be because you people don’t record such data?
"I’m sure you’ll agree there is a much greater chance of dying from an adverse reaction to medication than a colon cleanse."
But there are intended benefits from taking medication, there is NO evidence that colon cleanses are of any medicinal benefit. Actual SERIOUS adverse reactions to drugs are rare, most side effects are mild and minor.
okay it seems to be something new
I’m not a colorectal surgeon either but I would be interested to know how an enema, which to my knowledge is a gravity fed device, would put more pressure droping fluid through her colon with the force of gravity from a short distance, than faecal matter with a much more solid consistency when being pushed by peristalsis?
You are also overlooking that this poor lady had GI pathology at a very advanced stage. For her any intervention may have been potentially dangerous. Most people wouldn’t be in this unfortunate position. Consequently enemas or colonic irrigations are not dangerous by default any more than getting on a bus isn’t dangerous by default.
In Auckland last year a Vietnamese man was killed sitting on a bus when a lorry driving past had a wheel fall off the axle which crashed though the buss window and killed him when it landed on him.
Should we recommend not using the bus service in Auckland because there is a chance this might happen?
Should the vietnamese government recommend all of its citizens not to migrate to new zealand because they may die in an unfortunate accident? If they do should the rest of the world take heed?
Dave you have mentioned correlation and causation many times. I know you understand what they are and how they are different. Take your own advice and stop being so desperate to discredit altmed that you will approach it from any angle and clutch at straws no matter how silly you look. I know you are smarter than that.
EDIT:
###Thats right, one case history does not make EVERY practice wrong. After all, people have died having barium enemas in hospital (there was a recent case in the paper) The point that we are highlighting here is that there are NO PROVEN BENEFITS with colon cleases so why take even the smallest risk ?? Also, many alties don’t consider the risks.###
What are the risks from colon clenses normally?
As far as considering risk, When people take prescribed medication have they been told in great detail of the risks?
Minor risk include things like pruritis. major risks can include death.
In my life time i have been prescribed many drugs.
Not once has a doctor, nurse or pharmacist ever advised me of what risks are involved in taking any of the drugs no matter how minute or major that risk was. NOT ONCE.
I’m sure you’ll agree there is a much greater chance of dying from an adverse reaction to medication than a colon cleanse.
Rhiannaskep doc doesn’ reply to my e-mails because I keep throwing spanners in his works and he is too arrogant to admit he has got it wrong.
I keep blogging here.
After numerous attempts to enlighten you and long debates + exchanges about mrs ligthning bering concerned about my flirting with 60 year olds and assertions of how you look in nurses uniform + how I look in my tunic you still don’t get it……
Do I care?
Not really I see that you and Dave will never see the light but other people will see the blogs, see how bigoted and narrow minded your little club is and can make their own mind up.
As for your accusation that I am lying, I got a script for anti-biotics 5 years ago in the UK. It arrived in a little brown plastic bottle. NO LEAFLET.
I haven’t taken any prescriptive meds since then. The only reason I visited a doctor in NZ is because immigration required me to do a medical.
Your excuse that you don’t give the information because patients are hypochondriacs is just ridiculous and laughable.
What about informed consent?
You really have lost the plot if you think this is justification for withholding vital information and treat the people who pay you (be it indirectly) with such disrespect.
Furthermore, I don’t give people anything to take but I explain every technique I do before I do it, why I will do it and ask for permission. Obviously if they are a repeat patient and have had the techniques before and know what to expect all i do is ask permission.I also tell them what they can expect from the treatment down to minor irritation to full blown severe treatment reactions.
And actually I do record what a patient reports post treatment on my notes from feeling much better to severe treatment reactions. THIS IS REQUIRED UNDER NEW ZEALAND LAW.
NB. If you want to see some examples of appalling note taking, your lot get mentioned consistently in this conversation.
Well it’s obvious: the surgeon is lying to spread fear of true cures of course! Had she actually listened to her homeopathalogical liar, and gotten the cleanse it wouls have cured the CAUSE of the illness, not just the symptoms!. The surgeon is part of the CONSPIRACY!
There you go, that will be the answer given if any is offered at all.
EDIT: See the difference here is that conventional medicine (when administered correctly) shows their hand: My dad underwent several back surgeries and before each he was read a 7 page list of possible complications, up to and including death.
Alternative treatments almost never state any possible risks, in fact a popular line from them is usually "NO harsh side effects like conventional medicine!" which is simply rubbish.
Dave,
As with any "Natural Home Remedies", colon cleanse of otherwise. A little common sense must be used. In this case, I believe Mrs. Dingle should have consulted with a MEDICAL doctor before starting any homeopathic cures. At what point do you not know when something is SERIOUSLY WRONG? I use natural methods to cure or control MINOR problems. But I do not hesitate to see my physician if I have a persistent or reoccurring problem. It just goes back to plain old common sense.
It instantly occurred to me that the human colon wasn’t meant to hold a gallon of water (or five) – so I gave up on the any further thought on the matter then and there.
Some might call it stubbornness, but I prefer to think of it as being immensely practical.
I am not making an opinion on the validity of colon cleansing; however, is there supposed to be some scientific proof to support your opinion in this article? It is a story about here-say evidence about one deceased woman who had cancer who didn’t do an enema and what might have happened if she had done it.
I don’t agree with those who do colon cleansing for health reasons; but, you have not provided scientific evidence to support your claims. Perhaps it wouldn’t have helped her; but, maybe it would have. How successful was the doctor? The evidence shows she listened to her doctor and used conventional medicine and she is dead. Should I conclude that conventional medicine is no good?
Based on your logic, should the question be "Are you aware how dangerous seeing a doctor can be?"